"How it all began" or "Can you be re-infected again and again?

[Laverdalothar]

As it seams it finds some attention at least for some, I will continue my Laverda-Story here. To make searches easier, I will copy the original posts over from the thread "To live the Speed Cleverly" without deleting them, but will continue here. This is nothing against the original thread or against Stevio whom I fully respect without having had the chance to meet him in person yet, it is just to separate two different strings. OK? ;-)

Thanks for reading and those who have already read the first parts - please simply scroll down to the latest one... 

 

[Laverdalothar]

The orange virus did take some months (not to say it was 2 years...) of incubation time to fully infect me, but read the story and have a laugh...:

in 1989, German military service was haunting 21 1/2 year old Lothar for joining this nice homogenious dressed community to defend a country from a non existing animy. Allthough they surely paid more than my contribution was ever worth, I was not really able to afford extended vacation on Martinique or the like beautifull little paradieses. So I took the secound best choice and - drove down to my brother who lived in Munich at that time to stay with him for a beer or two and to sleep on his kitchen-floor - just the same comfort I had on my olive-green temporary home in the very north of Germany. Roughly 1.000 Km of travel did make me feel as if in a different world, so I really could enjoy my time there - all the 24 hours I had before I had to take the 16 hours train back. Lucky me - as a soldier you pay only half of the ticket. And believe me - it wasn't even worth that...

But - back to the highlight of that weekend... Robert (you guess who this is now, do you?) has had bikes allways ever since he was 15 I think. I can not count them anymore nor do I know if he had more bikes or more women in that time (nor which ride he enjoyed more...  ), but after some more or less boring ones (I mean the bikes in that case...), he finally owned a 10003CL Laverda Tripple. It came from a Dealer that had a good reputation at that time (but we know better now...) and was "SFC'ed": orange single seat (Duc?), SFC fairing, orange painted - you'll get it, right?

Well - after some instructions, he told me I may drive it and suggested I should "leave the town, through the little forest, long right curve ("shift one down and let it sing..."), make a U-turn in the next village and come back. When you get back, the long right is now a long left (hey - I KNOW!!). Do the same: shift one down before you go into the curve and expect some people applauding when you pass the pub on the left side then..."

I thought - yeah, man.. sure...  :

So - I put my things on, helmet etc and went off slowly for a ride. The forest came, the corner came and right before entering, I shifted down and gave throttle a pull, just seeing the pub on the inner side of the corner. No one there. Ah - he said: "on the way back..." right? So - I turned around in the next village and again entered the same corner after some kilometers, shifted down and - THERE THEY WERE!!! I could not believe it but it was honestly true: 4 guys were standing outside the pub applauding when I passed them! I was totally amazed and still looked into the mirror and almost oversaw the truck in front of me... I braked very hectically and hoped no one had seen it... Then I thought - "eyh, man, this is a famous Laverda you have there - why not give it a kick and overtake that damned truck?" So I did... The beast between my knees agressively exploded when I shifted down and gave throttle a full push just to make me feel like an arrow beeing shot by a crossbow... Wow - that was a bit different to my 200ccm GT Suzuki ... I was so glad, the seat was a stabil hump seat, else I for sure would have fallen off just behind the bike! Well - at least it felt that way that time... 

I returned to my brothers place and was amazed about what I had just experianced. Slightly shaking, I told my brother about it and we had the same infantil grin on our face. We had our problems together when we were young, but sharing something like this made me really feel close to him.

The bike was beautifull, loud, vibrating, beautifull, orange - did I say beautifull allready?

But at that time it also felt like the beautifull girl that you would love to marry but you know you will never be able to get or afford her...

...to be continued ...

 

[Laverdalothar]

Part III

I finished military service in 1990 with "a big hole in my pocket". Before I could start thinking of a new bike, I was really more or less into restoring an Austin Mini (yeah... what a fun car... if it runs... and does not brake...). The Mini was somehow like the Laverda: underestimated, attracting attention, allways something to screw on, never finished, totally beloved!

However, when it ran like it should, I sold it (fortunately I never did that with a Laverda; I mean - SELL it, not make it work like it should...  ).

After some months of financial (and social...) recovery, a new girlfriend (lost the old one somewhere between driving 8 hours each direction between her and the caserna every Friday and Sunday and freezing off my ass in cold winter 1989/1990 during a military excercise) and a new car, I got hold of a RD250 and sold my GT200 for it. Twice as much power scared the hell out of me - or was it the suspension? The "so called" brakes? The "good old" Metzelers? Not sure.

Anyways: one day I got a call from my brother (must have been somewhere 1993 me thinks; not 100% sure though). He told me two things: A) he was going to marry the mother of his 5 months old son in September and b) the same weekend there is a Laverda-Meeting in Italy, called the Pompone meeting. He asked me if I want to join him and some friends on the tripp down to Breganze on Saturday. I was like: "ehem - WATT???? You are telling me you gonna marry your girlfrind just to jump on a bike to drive down to Breganze?? What is she saying???" and he said: "Naaa... we drive down Saturday, I marry her on Thursday. Plenty of time...  "

So we did... On Friday, he asked me to join him on a tour to Munich city, he wanted to show me something. It was this:

poor little one was missing some parts... (left mirror, windshield, etc.etc.):

and was not really my cup of tea regarding the styling... but there was a very good argument for it to be taken...:

But - still the virus (especially the "bavarian styling" kind of) was not successful in infecting me.

So - we drove to Italy the next early morning.
....to be continued ...

 

[Laverdalothar]

Part IV

So - after the marriage of my brother and the "check-out" of this blue/white 3CL based, "Cico/cropredy/Stucchi"-equipped bike on Friday, my brothers wife offered me her XT600 for the ride down to Italy, some friends with Morini and Laverda joining us while Robert took his 1000 3CL "SFC":

We startet VERY early in the morning (4:00 am) and Robert reminded me that the XT600 is not made for high speeds, so I should stay below 130Km/h to avoid overheating. Today I am not 100% sure anymore if he just said that so he could overtake me roughly 100 times on the way down to Italy, just to let me pass him just afterwards, konstantly driving the maximum of 130km/h... 

Still the virus did not infect me, allthough my immune system was getting worse with every kilometer we took. And there were planty of them...

In Italy after some wrong attempts to find the way, we asked a Yamaha RD250 driver where the "Moto Restaurante Monte Grappa" was. He simply shoke his had and lifted his shoulders to show us he does not know that place. Suddenly Robert said "Da Maurizzio?" and a bright smile appeared on the bikers face "Si si - Da Maurizzio. Blablablabla..." - We did not understand ANYTHING... So - Robert (talking some words italian) asked him if we can maybe invite him for a drink at Maurizzio's place, hoping that he would show us the way then. I think he understood and guided us to Maurizzio (roughly 30 minutes drive...).

At Maurizzio, we had a good lunch and asked Maurizzio about where all the Laverdisti were. "A Breganze, Piazza centrale - central place". He discribed Robert the way and so we went to Breganze.

In Breganze, the inner part of the town was police blocked, 2 carabineri were standing in front of a barrier. We moved between the cars and suddenly saw the Carabineri. They saw us, too, and beckoned us over. I thought: "man - you are in trouble now... it is forbidden to pass cars between two lines... shit...". So - we drove slowly to the barrier, which was suddenly opened. we passed the barrier, stopped behind it to await our "ticket" and were quiet surprised when the carabineri (not less surprised about us stopping behind the barrier than we were) told us to drive on. We looked at each other and Robert started the 3CL again, heading onward deeper into the town, us following him. Just 200 meters on, the city opened up and we found ourselfes in the center of Breganze, righthand the central place in front of the church (where the meeting was this year, too). Ups - lots of Laverdas, Ducati etc...

Does anyone recognize the last bike? Right, Andy Wagners 1200 Mirage... ;-)

Still my immune system was working, fighting back the orange virus. But the resistance got weaker and weaker with every 750SFC that was started, with every 1000/1200 that got woke up to life, barking for a ride-out into the Dolomits or the Venecian Alps.

We rode back that same evening and Robert asked me to change bikes for a while, as his left hand and lower arm was hurting badly. I was wondering why until I pulled that clutch again...

Now it was me overtaking Robert on his bike, pushing throttle and enjoying the kick in my a** ;-)

We got home somewhere around midnight, after roughly 1.000Km of driving in less than 24 hours. I was so tired that I almost droped the bike when entering the garage (you see - droping a bike has a long history for me...  :-\). Robert just catched it and helped me off the bike.

We hadn't have food since lunch and so Robert cooked some Spagetti and we had 2 beer before we went to sleep.

When I got into the bathroom, I recognized a strange picture: tired like a dog, drunk by the impressions of the past 22 hours (and the two beer...), there was a guy grinning at me in the mirror like mad.

I was infected.

 

[Laverdalothar]

Part V

As said, I was infected after the return of my first Laverda Meeting in Breganze, almost 3-4 years after my first ride on a Laverda. The funny thing with that infection is that from one moment to another, money seams not to be a problem that is unsolvable, a dirty, non running bike seams no problem, a blue/white color sheme looks great, a broke windshield is replaceable at once and a missing blinker - well.... THAT is an easy thing, isn't it... All that - from todays standpoint - tells me something: a problem is not a problem if you focus on how to fix it instead of the problem itself. Sounds logical, but beeing a 25 years old GERMAN male, that is a lesson that is hard to learn... 

Well - so I bought the bike, sold my RD250 to a friend (yes, he STILL talks to me... or better - again...  :-[). My brother picked the bike up and fixed the little problems it had, brought it through the German "T?V" and I got it registered. From now on, any time I joined some friends on a trip, I had to be - as we call it - the "Tail-Light" of the group (means: I allways had to stay behind all the others). Not because the bike "blued" a bit, but simply because else the others would not hear their own bikes anymore but just mine...  :-\

Who ever heard a 180? Tripple with an open Megaphone at 7.500 revs knows what I mean. A Harley is really quiet compared to that... 

Over the years, I fitted some spanish exhausts (much quieter, but now the sound was like a VW T3...  :-[), put in a 4/C inlet cam (yeah - really: 4/C inlet, A11 exhaust), tried 36mm carbs, tried Jota pipes, installed a DMC 1 etc.

One day, I had a drop of my bike due to sand in a 90? corner (I was slow - roughly 30km/h maybe) and as a result, the full-fairing was scratched and broken and the 1200-style tank had a little dent (sounds familiar if you red my post about this years Breganze meeting, eh?  :-[). The positive person I am, I took this to be god's advice for a color change (for the better I feel...):

I loved the look and the fairing was really efficiant, 225km/h without any problem.

However, my guardian angel must have had to much to do with me trying to navigate me through the pissing rain and could not take care of the bike, so it fell and "hurt" itself on the "Reschen-Pass" (Austrian Alps) in 1997 (I had nothing at all!!). Again the fairing was broken (this time to a serious point...), the generator cover was broken, oil was pooring out - I could not drive on. Very disappointed, I had to leave the bike on a parking spot just 300 meters away from the point I droped the bike and called the ADAC to get it picked up and brought back to my brothers workshop near Munich, Germany.

I continued the tour on the passanger seat of Detlefs 1200 Laverda. The first thing I really remember after parking the bike was me sitting on the passanger seat steering at the sprinkler systems that throw water at apple-trees - while it was pissing cat and dogs! Silly tirolians, I thougt...

On Saturday, the rain stopped suddenly at roughly 2:00 p.m. and the sun came out. Within minutes, we had blue skys, 25?C and - 99% humidity...  :-[

A friend of Detlef heard about my bad luck and offered me his Zane 750S, a black half-faired new twin which he used as a demo bike (he had a Laverda dealer contract). With shaking fingers, I took the bike for a spin up the Monte Grappa. We took the very narrow road with hundreds of 180? turns and after the 5th or so I recognized that I felt "home" on the bike and gave it a bit more push. Typically the Zane's are not made for these kind of roads, but if they suite you, you can be damned fast uphill... Don't know if I had just one of my good days or if the others were to shy or expecting me just to throw the next bike away, I was roughly 40 - 50 secounds faster at the top than the next one... what a ride... 

I was - again - infected. Now not only with the Breganze type of the virus, no, now the Zane type, too...

* to be continued *

 

[Laverdalothar]

Part VI

Back from the meeting in Breganze after the serious (low speed though) drop of the bike, my brothe and me took a close look at the bike. It was not that bad as we first thought, but after all, we took this again as "god's advice" to completely restore the bike with new electric, tuned Motor, powder coated frame and so on.

We sat down with a "Weissbier" (bavarian beer) in our hands and started to think about what to do. And you know it - to men with ideas - you soon overstep budgets and still have ideas...  :-[ So we stripped it down to the following:

-Frame: cut off the damned ground-touching side-stand that was braced to the lower frame tube, sandblast and powder coat it

-new K&J steel swing-arm for more stability

-Koni's on the rear, Wilbers fork springs, fork brace

-wheels: sandblast, powdercoat it and put new bearings in

-electrics: completely new with super-seal connectors; keep the DMC1, as it worked so well

-dashboard: laser-cut stainless dashboard with Zane-instruments:

-Motor: inspired by Cico's bikes, we decided for the following:
1.) SFC head, ports flowbenched
2.) high compression pistons (10,5:1) but for budget reasons, we kept it at 1000ccm
3.) 4/c inlet and exhaust
4.) 37mm primaries, jota collector, open Campell Jota cans
5.) 40mm PHM dellort carbs (well - they do work...somehow...  :-[)
6.) all motor covers polished and chromed
7.) in-line external oil-filter
8.) SFC 750 gear-selector cover with the oil-filler built in

Think that it's mainly... target was to get a bike as close as possible to 100HP and - potentially - slightly below 100 Nm.

The frame was done quiet soon, suspension etc, too, but the motor and electric was a different story. Robert built up his own business at that time and had some other priorities, so I had a bike in pieces and nothing to ride on...  :'(

End of 1999, a friend told me that a long desired 1000SFC was potentially for sale in Frankfurt at Piet's Bikeshop (no - not the Piet on this forum here!). I called him and he was somewhat  undecided if he should sell it or not. The bike was in used condition, did not fire up due to standing for 5 years or longer but was else complete except the original exhaust. It had a L&W 3-1 exhaust, a prototype as far as I know (Michael from sportconnections could tell, he built during his time at L&W) with such a great sound - I could not believe it. It was a must have...

My wife who had heared me claming for 2 years about "no bike in the garage" finally gave up and was (somewhat...) OK with me purchasing the 1000SFC. It was at a high price for that time (11.000DM/5.400?), but OK compared to where the 1000SFC sells today. So I went down to Frankfurt with a traylor on the last Friday morning in January 2000 with a bunch of money in my pocket. Piet had the bike "T?Ved" so that I could pick it up, drive back to my hometown, get it registered, throw in a new battery and drive to my first bike-meeting with it the very same day.

Unfortunately, the SFC had some to rich pilot jets mounted (70...), so that any time it was warm and you let it idle, it simply stoped working and you had to wait until it is cold enough again to start the motor. Was fixed soon, but it almost kept me from getting to the bike-meeting (almost there, 2 kilometers to go, the motor went of at a traffic light and I could not even push-start the bike anymore...).

While having the SFC for my daily ride then, I picked up the Jota from my brothers workshop in 2000, too, and brought it to OCT to get it completed (motor had to be stripped again just to controle everything, electric had to be done etc. etc.). Took them almost a year to complete it, but that was OK, I had the SFC to ride on.

You could not imagine what a feeling it was when one day the phone rang in 2001 and OCT told me: "Hey Lothar, your bike fired up first time today. We make some adjustments and give it fresh T?V, but I think you can pick it up on Friday if you like". Oh - how much I did...!!!

*to be continued*

 

[stevio laverda]

I love it all Lothair  ------True Motorcycles    for True Motorcyclists      LFFL  Breganze Heart Beating

 

[Laverdalothar]

Part VII - picking up my Jota

Well - what can I say. Those of you who have ever restored a bike know how it feels when you are about to first time push the button on a now almost new bike... I was so nervous when I drove over the 80 Kilometers to OCT... Allways thinking of "did I forget something to ask"... "have I forgotten to tell them something".... "How much will it cost at the end....".... "will my wife still talk to me when she sees the bill???" - those kind of questions, you know them all.

I came to OCT, parked the car with the trailor outside and went in through this big wooden door through which just 100 years ago the horses went in and out. It is a great atmosphere there which suits the business they do very well. The house has even more history than the bikes inside, and that said, you really could make it a film scene for a Laverda-promotion video of the 70's. Simply love it!

The bike stood outside, was polished and painted, looking almost like new. Roger told me a bit about what they did, how it worked out, what he likes and not likes about it etc. I think I did not listen really (sorry Roger), as all I thought was "what a f**in beauty!!"

In the previous posts I forgot to mention that we also upgrade the brakes to F08 gold-line Brembos at that stage (stainles liners included), still with the original rims and disks.

"The fork brace is simply crap!!" made me wake up out of my dreams. I looked at Roger and as I seame to have looked very irritated, Roger took the bike off the center stand and pushed it into the front suspension as much as he could - and it stood there, did not move out! I was shocked. He took an allen key out of his pocket, turned to screws open of the fork brace and - wups - the bike jumped up again. Mmhhh... something to adjust at home, I thought...

Overall, this was how the bike looked at that time:

The bike was beauty, but a pig to ride. I was so disappointed, at some point I almost gave up trying to set it right. What ever I did, I had a BIG lack of power in midrange (not so much in low-end as I expected because of the 40mm carbs, really just midrange). I tried different needles, needle-jets, sliders, mainjets, different bellmouthes etc. etc. etc up to the point where I could not help myself or the bike any further and decided - especially as I had the same issue with the 1000SFC, which I had modified to 36mm carbs and a new stainless 3-1 special one-off Exhaust meanhwile, as the L&W had corroded away...  :-\) - to hand the bikes over to someone who knows better than me about setting up the carbs: Dynotec in Germany (They build the fastest Guzzi's I know of...).

But before that, I had to brake the motor fully in, which I had done almost completely already (1.000km just half throttle, another 500 with with a max of 3/4 throttle, the last 800 with partly full throttle). During the last 800Km (Stuttgart and back on the highway), i recognized a terrible sound that got louder from Kilometer to kilometer. Sounded like a broken bearing to me, so I brought the bike to OCT again to get it checked. When we opened the Alternator cover, we saw the balls of the bearing running freely in the seat - without the cage...

Turning the Alternator Cover a bit around, we found the cage - well - it's fragments to be more precise - all collected by the magnet. Smaller pieces might have fallen into the crankcase, so we decided to pull the engine (which we had to do aniway) and look into it. While having it open again (and some cash on the bank - dangerous combination...), I decided to improve the gasflow for the 40mm Dell'Ortos a bit - by upgrading to 1116ccm! 

Motor had to be run in again, but felt sooooooo much better. Still had the same issues unfortunately with the midrange Power and so I gave up to find it by myself and - made an appointment with Dynotec and a special deal (not sure, they will ever again do this now...  ):

I said to Jens Hoffman, the owner: "I will come with two Laverdas to be set up. I will give you the bikes fully prepared to test them on the road with your Lambda-System. When you return with the first bike, I give you the other and you tell me what to change on the first while you test the secound. And so on. You do not need to screw on one of them, you simply tell me what to change and I do it for you until both bikes run perfectly."

Jens agreed and so I drove to Dynotec, two Laverdas on the trailer. I started at 5:00am in the morning just to be with them at 7:00 when they start...

*to be continued*

 

[drdesmo]

Lothar,
It's like Lyme disease. or malaria. YOu never quite get rid of it if you are really infected.

 

[Laverdalothar]

Part VIII - at Dynotech

Early in the morning, I found the workshop of Dyntoech somewhat hidden in the back of a big parking place. Allthough a big sign was hanging over the entrence, I almost oversaw it. Parked the car and after some first "hello" to Jens and the info that Dirk (the one to make the adjustments) was not there, I unloaded the bikes from the trayler and got everything settled to start. Jens looked at my Jota and said: "Nice bike, man, but it's lacking of some good shocks... The Konis you have are not bad, but we can build you some ?hlins to suite you and your bike which will transform it to something totally different. You would not believe how much the rear makes a difference...!!" I was not really unpleased with the Konis so I gently just said "Aha..." and something about 'first we get the carbs right, then we look for lasting budget for shocks' or so...

Dirk arrived and we prepared the bikes with Lambda-Testers and he went off for the first ride. After roughly 20 - 25 Minutes he came back and told me what to change. He took the 1000SFC and while he went on the next spin, I changed what ever he told me at the Jota. Again roughly 20 minutes later he came back just when I put the Tank back on the Jota, told me what to change on the SFC and took the Jota again. That continued for some hours. I think at the end of that day, I was the fastest man to dismount seat and tank, change carb-settings and mount again on a Jota as well as on a SFC at least in my country...

However, after roughly 10 hours of constantly changing jets, needles and so on, we got the bikes closer to a good running but - especially not on the Jota but also not on the SFC - couldn't fix the midrange power-drop. We put the bike SFC on the dyno first and found an almost standard 97 HP and something like 94Nm but both with a 10% drop in midrange. GRRRR.  >

The same test for the Jota showed 84 HP and 95Nm. Not to bad, knowing that it "hit a wall" at 6.250 Revs and had also a big drop at 4.500. I was completely dissappointed and looking into Dirk's face, I found he was speachless, too. Typically this is the time to drop the wrench and get a beer, but I had to drive back 200Km, so we just shoke our heads and silently looked at each other and the bike.

Examining the bike a bit further, we found the collector to be the issue - it was simply purpel red, which indicates a big heat caused by a back pressure. It's design was simply crap.

So - we kept on talking for roughly 1 hour about what to change to improve the bike and he said that I should leave it with them, they would be able to fix it but would need some time welding a new collector etc.. Also he suggested for a bike like this, to use Keihin carbs instead of Dell'Ortos which - on the Guzzi's they use - improves Torque and power by at least 10%. An Idea - as you all know - which merged into my concept rightaway, but budget was the limit for the moment...

Finally I asked Dirk if he thinks that my Jota could benefit from some ?hlins shocks as Jens suggested. He looked at me and said: "Not to a point that I could really argue the amount the shocks cost you. Your Jota's suspension and stability is so great already with almost standard components, it takes us very big affords to ever bring a Guzzi to that point!" Not sure he ment it 100% that way, but you can imagine how good it felt... 

Loading the SFC and the Jota back onto the trailer, I sumed up the day mentaly. Problem solved on the SFC, problem found on the Jota: first fix the exhaust before going any further, then look at some Keihins...

The fact that I did all the screwing and that the results were not satisfying, Dirk made up a very fair bill for me and so I left with 50% success but with a new direction to head to.

*to be continued - at the exhaust Specialist*

 

[Laverdalothar]

Part IX - The collector - or "how to find torque and power without changing the motor Setup"

After the quiet frustrating day at Dynotech I sat down in my little cave called office and thought about what to do. I searched the internet for companies that make custom exhausts but could only find the well known ones like MAB, SR-Racing etc., which are 400 Km or more away from me. Then I tumbeled upon a little company quiet close to me called St?ber GmbH, just 20 Km away from me (http://www.stueber-auspuffanlagen.de/index2.html).

I called them just to be told that they only make exhausts for Race Cars and that they can not help me. I spoke a while with the owner and told him that I know where the problem is but don't know how to fix it and all I would need is a hint in which direction I should go. 3 Secounds of silence told me that I was very close to him agreeing on helping me - which he did!

I drove over to them the very same day, willing to leave the bike with them. Mr. St?ber looked at the exhaust and a slight grin on his face told me, he knows exactly what the problem is and how to solve it. "Can you leave us the bike here? I think I can fix it the next 1-2 weeks." Sure I could, more than happy I had someone helping me! We agreed on a price-limit and that he would mount a connection for a Lambda-sonde into the new collector and off I went, leaving the bike in good hands.

Just 4 days later, St?ber called me to tell me the bike is ready to be picked up. I called my Dad to give me a lift and together we drove over to St?ber's little factory.

The bike stood in the show-room and before I put it onto the trailer, I asked him what he found and what he changed. "Well - I can not tell you every secret, but your assumption that the issue was the collector was spot on."

So I looked at the changes and found something I had never seen before - a 3-2 Exhaust system that virtually has no collector box. See:

The bike now ran almost perfect, the drop in power in midrange was still a bit there but way less than before and it easyly reved up to 8.000 in last gear! What a bike...

Torque in low-end however was a bit lacking and again the Keihin FCR-Carbs came to my mind...

*Read next part: The Keihin-Story"

 

[Laverdalothar]

*Part X - The Keihin story*

There are many ways of how to learn. The "try and error" method, the "study first" method or the "ask a specialist method". I prefere - all of them... call it paranoic, call me pedantic, but I found that one of them allone does either take to much time, to much money or is to much dependend on one single experiance (which may be driven also by just one of the above).

It is allways the same when I change something: first there is an Idea, then I do a lot of researches on the web if that has been done before (as I do not re-invent the wheel), then I talk to people who have done it before and then I start to add my thoughts to it and try to execute it best possible. In the terms of the Keihin project, I had talked to Dynotec (positiv on the Keihins), OCT (no experiance but tend to be negative) and had requested info on the MSN-Webpage if anyone had done it before - no answers but people telling me it won't work, big loss of low-end torque etc. So - I had to take the risk to simply do it and try what is possibel.

I bought me a set of Keihins out of Ebay. They were the down-draft kind of OEM Keihins, used on Suzuki and Yamaha "R"-Versions in the late 80's, beginning of 90's.

As these carbs were OEM ones, they also had choke-systems (not all have...), but the design of the choke-slider did not allow to change it to the new distances. I ended up making my own new one. laser-cut out of 1 mm stainless steel...:

The difference of the Keihins to the Dell'Ortos are so obvious and named in some secounds:

-smooth bore for better constant venturi
-this leads to easier and more precise setup

-easy access of the main-jet and air-jets for fast setup

-easy access of the needle for fast setup

-roler-setup on the slider

-slider design to minimize the negative influence on the venturi

-way more stabil in their connections (I think it is 5 fixed connections opposit to two on the Dell'Orto)

unfortunately, the carbs were "well used" and quiet dirty, and also doing the linking was not so easy for me without the right tools, so I contacte Stephen Topham, the Mikuni-Distributor for Germany (as the Keihin Distributor did not want to help me, he just wanted to sell me a new Unit for roughly 1200?...). After roughly 2 weeks, the carbs came back to me, well cleaned (ultrasonic...), new jets and needles and pre-set and pre-synced for direct usage on my bike. Mounted on the bike, you could see almost the power they deliver...:

The result were some impressive figures: 100HP at rearwheel and roughyl 101Nm. No clutch correction figures have been used to avoid the clutch push-rod to get damaged. If you add a low figure of roughly 12% to these numbers you get to 112 HP and 113Nm at clutch. I was (and am!) very much pleased with it!! ;-)

But now I had a problem - my 1000SFC was "suffering" power compared to the Jota. Something I had to change... 

 

[drdesmo]

Lothar,
That is an impressive story.
Your exhaust issues remind me of a friend who built a Kawasaki 500 triple that ran like a scalded dog in a power band of about 900 RPM. He went to work for NASA and found their wave mechanic specialist. One afternoon they sat down with NASA's computer and spent a couple hours designing an exhaust that made the little monster the most tractable thing you ever rode. Still ran over 135mph. Actually timed by the Washington State Patrol.

 

[Laverdalothar]

yeah, they have adjusted tools, so you can trust the number... 

It really surprised me how much such a little thing like the collector can be such a PITA! Looking at most systems available today on the market, I allways wondered why they do not fix the issue while they reproduce it anyways! Look at all original power-curves of Tripples, they ALL have a drope around 3.500 - 4.500. The very same as mine, just mine had an even bigger drop due to a higher level of tuning!

BTW: the same happened on my 1000SFC, but THAT is another story. To be told shortly... 

 

[stevio laverda]

Great thread Lothar------- you my friend are lucky enough to have terminal Laverda syndrome-----it is easily caught

some slightly annoying side effects is the tendency to wet yourself laughing when your friends turn up  on new Ducatis

and a tendency to roll your eyes  before vomiting over Jap bikes

one things for sure it will be even better tomorrow

 

[Grant]

Lothar,
did the bike companies not engineer a dip in the powerband there deliberately as that was where the noise testing was done?
Any chance of a full on view of your collector?
I know you made a diagram, but it would be good to make a plan view from above or below.

Could you market such a device?
If it solves the dip then I am sure others would be interested in it too. (me, for one...)

 

[Ernesto]

Hi, Lothar.

Nice feature, the easy-access jets on your Keihins!

Ernesto

 

[Laverdalothar]

Hi Ernesto,

yeah - that is cool about the Keihins: you feel that the engineers that developed them have worked on bikes and know what problems you have when you want to set the carbs right. Everything is really made for easy access (not only on my carbs, that is a standard feature). Also the push/pull throttle is great, as it makes sure the sliders do not 'hang' as sometimes happens on the Dell'Ortos. Motor brake is really working...

Grant,

never thought about marketing it - honestly. I did not have the exhaust off the bike since it was mounted, so - no, I do not have other shots than what I provided in the thread. At the end, the basis was a Keihan collector which was cut in two pieces: the 3 tubes just behind the area where they are linked together and the rest. everything behind the linking-area has been thrown away and simply two 32mm pipes streigt backwards (very slight angle...) have been welded in that have a 45? angled piece at the end to connect them to the Jota pipes. For a welder that is able to do stainless welding, this should not be any problem to copy I think.

 

[redfox]

Stevio,
That nice remark on vomitting over japscrap, I can really recognise. And while driving, my friend's 851 rattle apart and he'd have to call a truck. And another time a friend and I were racing from south in my country (close to German border), to Copenhagen - a trip of only 150 km's. He started out hard and dissapeared, but I soon saw him again, overtook him, and came home and drank a soda, before he arrived... Pretty much tells you how well the fairing is designed on the RGS. Great bike. Totally loved it, but allways wanted the SFC1000 which I have now. None of my japscrap friends understand it, and they don't understand why I want to keep it forever, as they all say: why on Earth do you keep that old scrap Laverda, when you could buy the latest and greatest every year, and feel good untill autoum? Then every year we reach October, and they sell it, only to get another in Marsc/April. I allways wonder why, since I feel more and more joy of my bike. It kind of grows on you, while they feel so bored, taht they have to sell theirs.
But throwing up on japscrap, that I can follow. I'll call them pukepans from now on.

Lothar, please get home on to your keyboard (or tell your boss to give you a looong lunch hour break), and continue 

Cheers all,
Jacques 

 

[KERMIT1200]

Hi Lothar,
  Enjoying the thread.

  Keihin carbs fitted some to Monty earlier this year,can only agree with your comments;except the mixture skrew,you'd laugh could I find it,not till I got a mirror and poistioned it under the float bowels!Strange turning something you can not see.
  I suppose you'd be better off calling your collector box a junction box.By the way does it have any sort of metal bridge(between the pipes) to support them at the opposite end to the juction box?
 


Enjoyable,
Andy