Fuel filter

[Cuda]

Hi, I?m having some issues with sediment in my fuel preventing my float valves shutting off. The carbs are PHF 32 Dellorto?s on my jota. I was looking for some advice on a good in-line fuel filter that will be able to prevent this from happening. Any recommendations or advice would be much appreciated.
Cheers.
Dave.

 

[Paul Marx]

Have you thoroughly cleaned your tank out?

Paul

 

[Cuda]

No I haven?t. I was Going to do that tomorrow, then head into town and get some fuel filters. Any advice on the most effective methods on tank flushing. Thanks.

 

[Paul Marx]

You'll off course need to get the taps off and then shake/rinse/shake/rinse.

You can use petrol or alcohol to rinse, or soapy water as long as you dry the tank out thoroughly afterwards. A rinse with a phosphoric acid solution to end will keep rust at bay.

If it's very rusty inside, you'll need to get it out by doing a lot of shaking with some nuts and bolts or wood screws in the tank to dislodge the rust.

Paul

 

[Tippie]

The filters in the tank on the fuel taps and in the banjos of the carburettors are pretty fine. Be careful that you don't cause starvation issues with extra inline filters. It is better to get rid of the stuff from the tank.

 

[Ventodue]

The filters in the tank on the fuel taps and in the banjos of the carburettors are pretty fine. Be careful that you don't cause starvation issues with extra inline filters. It is better to get rid of the stuff from the tank.

+1.  I gotta say you're addressing the problem backwards.  The standard filters work just fine.  Get rid of the filth in your tank and you will have no need of yet more fuel filters.

Also:
Are you sure that you've correctly diagnosed the cause of the needle valves not closing?  How do you know it's due to "sediment in my fuel"?

Hint: there's a much more common cause ... 

 

[CLEMTOG]

needle valves, the term, can cause confusion, because the carbs do indeed have needles in them, I prefer to say float valves.

as craig hinted  ETHANOL

what colour are the float valve tips, black? bin them and get red ones.
CLEM

 

[Cuda]

The internals of the carbs have been refurbished fairly recently the tips on the end of the float valves are red and rubber tipped. I?ve Cleaned out the filters just inside the tank and banjos and drained the the fuel lines a few times. I?ll give the tank a good clean hopefully that fixes the issues. Getting items shipped at the moment is taking ages so I thought if all else fails and I needed to get filters I could get the ball rolling.
So could ethanol be another cause of value seating and sealing issues.

 

[Vince]

I need to do this on my Pantah tank and I was thinking about making some Cedar plugs to push into the tap holes while doing the shaking thing, you need long pointy circular wedges, just like Silicon Tubes use on Caulking guns, DING DING DING. That's Silicon, not those wider Sigaflex ones. Much less chance of snapping the plastic ones off in the tap hole as well.

 

[Ventodue]

needle valves, the term, can cause confusion, because the carbs do indeed have needles in them, I prefer to say float valves.

You are absolutely right, Clem  (bigthumb).  Dunno why I called 'em that - very old skool  (dunno).  My bad  (bolt)

 

[CLEMTOG]

don't plug the male threads of the tank , just link them together with a rubber hose and two hose clips.
red float valve tips should be ethanol resistant, but did the carb cleaner change the seats, which are solid brass, when he did your carbs, they may well have deteriorated as well, this is common, because when you unscrew the seats (9mm six pointed socket) the tools are very often not available (how amateur is that) and when you have got the seat out, there is a fibre washer that is compressed by it, and that can be quite tricky to get out without damaging the carb body (another potential leak).
if you are this anal, TRUST NO ONE.
CLEM

 

[Cuda]

The builder fully overhauled them using New carb components. I?m only having Intermittent problems with the carbs purging fuel out of the vents, it?s happening at different times with different carbs. Sometimes she ticks over wonderfully, other times misses occasionally and at others is missing quite badly and is pissing fuel out. I?m getting attuned to when the problem arises, which ain?t that hard.
Has Anyone had any experience with KBS motorcycle tank repair sealer kits. I asked a motorcycle dealership what they used to clean out tanks and they suggested this product as that?s what they use.
Cheers Dave.

 

[Dellortoman]

I know there are people who have used tank liners and are happy with them, but I've heard too many reports of problems with tank lining products to be comfortable using them. So I avoid them. None of my bikes have tank liners in them. I see a tank liner as a last resort effort to seal a leaky tank or perhaps resurrect a fibreglass tank for use with ethanol fuel. To me they belong in the same category as those pressurised cans of instant tyre fix. A bit of a bodge or band-aid fix.

If your tank is still reasonably sound, just give it a good clean and forget the liner.

As others have said, re-check your float valves. If you paid someone else to refurbish your carbs, you don't actually know what was done to them. Some mechanics are less reliable than they should be.

 

[Paul Marx]

I echo that on liners.
Useful on a tank with pinholes or a new fibreglass one but turns a small dent in the tank into a major operation needing liner removal.

Paul

 

[Cuda]

Yeah I thought the liner part of the process was a little Unnecessary the The first two stages of the process sounded like they could be beneficial to me. a good flushing agent first step, secondly a rusted inhibitor. do you think those two treatments would be a good idea. After flushing the tank four times I?m still getting fuel varnish rust some paint and other miscellaneous sediment still coming through the fuel system. Would it be better to put some nuts and bolts or bb?s inside the tank with fuel and work them around to clean as possible.

 

[Ventodue]

I echo that on liners.
Useful on a tank with pinholes or a new fibreglass one but turns a small dent in the tank into a major operation needing liner removal.

Paul

+1 to Paul and Cam before him.  Do try to avoid using sealer in steel tanks.  In plastic, yes.  You have no choice.  In steel, there are better ways.  Too many people have had liner come adrift and that really f***s things up.

 

[Ventodue]

Yeah I thought the liner part of the process was a little unnecessary.  The first two stages of the process sounded like they could be beneficial to me. A good flushing agent first step, secondly a rusted (sic) inhibitor.

All very fine, but let me leave you with this thought: how are you going to protect the layer of rust inhibitor?  Pound to a penny, the manufacturers of the kit work on the basis that you will be sloshing their epoxy around to protect the inhibitor.  If you're not, who is to say that it won't all be dissolved away by the very first tank of fuel you put in?

After flushing the tank four times I?m still getting fuel varnish, rust, some paint and other miscellaneous sediment still coming through the fuel system.

Can you be more precise, please? How d'you mean "through the fuel system"?  Do you mean coming out of the fuel tank?  Out of the taps?  If so, I suggest you haven't got any filters fitted to your fuel taps ... (If there's crap coming out without the taps fitted, no worries.  It will get stopped by the tap filters).

Or do you mean getting thru to the float bowl?  That seems unlikely if you have both the tap filters and the carb filter fitted.  But do say ...

Would it be better to put some nuts and bolts or bb?s inside the tank with fuel and work them around to clean as possible.

An efficient way to clean a steel tank is to throw in some bolt/screws/whatever, wrap the tank up in some blankets or similar, attach the tank firmly to one of the paddles of a slow turning cement mixer, turn it on ...  and walk away.

A couple of hours/beers later, and you're done.

 

[Cuda]

Oh shit Now I gotta buy a concrete mixer   does sound like a great way to to get it otherwise laborious job done.
The sediment is coming from the tank. I shined a torch inside The tank and could see the cylindrical filters on the petcock so they are there, whether or not they are damaged I?m not sure just from shooting a torch in there.

 

[Ventodue]

Ah .. if you can see the filters, you should be able to notice how relatively fine the mesh is.  So to get past them - assuming they ARE in good nick - any crap in the tank has to be smaller than the holes in the mesh.

P.s  In every tank, there's always seems to be a certain amount of debris.  Just don't ask me how it gets there ... :

And then this crap has to get past the mesh filter in the carb.  And then, in order to cause the carbs to overflow, it has to get blocked/held up somehow on the sealing face of the float valves.

A sequence of events which is not impossible.  But isn't so very common either - especially occurring intermittently as you describe, and on any one of 3 carbs.

In contrast, failure of the float valves to seal properly because of deterioration of the tips; or - as Clem said - incorrect installation, is common.

I say no more.

P.s  I thought everyone has at least one mate with a cement mixer 

 

[Cuda]

Food for thought. More investigation needed. Although I know it?s not ideal I?ve installed some in-line fuel filters so I?ll see if the problem still occurs.
There still is a fair bit of crap passing through the fuel taps and getting caught in the little filters that I?ve installed so I might have to take out the taps and just check on those filters. Some of the debris Seems like it could be larger than what I expect the mesh filter to let through. Thanks for all the information, advice and restraint from not taking the piss from someone not to clued up on theses things. (newhere)