Author Topic: Advice required: getting the Jota back on the road  (Read 939 times)

Offline Dellortoman

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Re: Advice required: getting the Jota back on the road
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2019, 04:19 »
At the mo my major issue is trying to work out where the keys are - I knwo I saw them about 3 years ago .. but where  ::)

I know where your keys are. They're in the place where you put them.  ;)
Location: Tasmania, Approx 42°53’S 147°23’E

Offline Tippie

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Re: Advice required: getting the Jota back on the road
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2019, 07:41 »
Piet on this forum can supply any of the standard keys by the number on the switch.
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Offline Pete-180

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Re: Advice required: getting the Jota back on the road
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2019, 10:27 »
I know where your keys are. They're in the place where you put them.  ;)

Your probably right, I reckon they're in the same place where I put that Series 2 Primpary drive case and that MkiV Motodd chasis I put to one side all those years ago  ;D

Offline Pete-180

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Re: Advice required: getting the Jota back on the road
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2019, 10:42 »
Piet on this forum can supply any of the standard keys by the number on the switch.

Thanks Tippie, I've sent Piet a message.

Offline Scrumpy

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Re: Advice required: getting the Jota back on the road
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2019, 10:55 »
Hi Pete,
Do you have any pics of the Mk4?

Cheers Jack
« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 10:59 by Scrumpy »

Offline Paul LeClair

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Re: Advice required: getting the Jota back on the road
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2019, 06:21 »
Hi Pete

Welcome

I can highly recommend Wolfgang Haerter     http://www.laverda.ca/   for all of your parts needs, new or used. Wolfgang ships all around the world, he supplies a great many of us all around the world, and has for a long time. Great guy, fair prices, fast shipping, huge selection and parts stock. Tell him Paul LeClair recommended you to him..... He is reasonably quick to respond to email, and he seems to usually be up for a chat if you figure out the time differences and call him.

this forum has been running for a long time and there is a lot of information in the archives, but ask anyways when you get stuck. Lots of knowledge amongst the members here. Also some highly specialised suppliers who can supply or direct you to suspension upgrades, brake upgrades, ignition upgrades, carb replacements with Mikuni flat slides, newly manufactured complete exhaust systems,etc., etc. Or, you can stay closer to stock, but I would recommend you at least do the suspension upgrades and most importantly, an ignition upgrade.

For the suspension, it all depends on budget.

For the front, the chrome sliders need to be in great shape, you can get away with new progressive springs, proper amount and weight of fresh fork oil , new fork seals, and a fork brace. Next step up would be RaceTech Gold Valve emulators. Next step above that would be to send the forks to MAxton for a full cartridge conversion.

For the rear, much better rear shocks. There are a variety of choices. I use a budget friendly more basic option, Ikon's with adjustable damping. They are a replacement for the former Koni's and are available from Wolfgang, among others. Beyond those, you can go as far as your wallet allows.

Whatever you do front and rear, setup is important, both sag and damping and oil weight. Ask for advice here.

Both my 79 1200 Mirage and my 1982 1200 TS Mirage Series 2 wallowed and weaved at around 80 - 100 mph in sweepers when I first got them. Disconcerting. My 79 was particularly bad, people riding behind me would comment on the bike waggling its ass so hard it looked like it was trying to spit me off. Both bikes cured by replacing swing arm bearings, headstock bearings, replacing the rear shocks, rebuilding the front forks, installing a fork brace, and properly setting up sag, damping, and suspension oil weight. Both are now very well behaved. I have had the 79 on a race track several times, it now handles quite well to the point where it allows the dragging of hard bits on both sides. Ground right through the ignition cover.

For the ignition, the stock ignition is really just a basic switch with a couple of pickups. The ignition switches from 10 degrees BTDC to 32 BTDC at around 2,750 rpm or so, but the bike will run rough and stumble if the pickups are not perfectly set, and not all the cylinders have advanced or retarded at the same time..... any modern ignition will solve that,a nd give a great deal more adjust-ability. The WITT ignition is long tried and proven. The more recent Ignitech and custom ignition timing plate from RedAx in Australia is a great system as well.

You will also need all the basic consumables.  A basic recommissioning would typically include new wheel bearings and sprocket carrier bearings, new drive chain, new timing chain, new headstock bearings and races, new swing arm bearings, and the various rubber bits that will have perished. I have obtained all of that, and more, from Wolfgang for my last 4 comprehensive Laverda rebuilds.

When you get to the carbs, new choke plungers, K1 needles, AB 265 needle jets, new pilot and main jets, and full rebuild kits. Worth running the carb bodies through an ultrasonic to get all the crap out. There are lots of historical posts here about properly jetting and setting up the stock Dellortto's.

If you intend to refurbish your gauges, check out Marcel  https://www.cb750faces.com/cb750faces.nl/content/7-gauge-restoration-services

Good luck, persevere, and keep at it.

Paul LeClair
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 06:36 by Paul LeClair »
Paul LeClair
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
79 1200 Mirage, 82 1200 Mirage, 84 RGS Executive, and various non Laverda's

Offline Pete-180

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Re: Advice required: getting the Jota back on the road
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2019, 14:10 »
Hi Paul,

Thanks for the masses of info - really helpfull!.

I've already contacted Marcel and will be sending the clocks off this week.

I'm going to start the strip down after the holiday in mid july and take stock of everything.

I did have the sliders rechromed a few years before I stopped riding her and if i remeber correctly it was done by Philpots - they'll be stripped and checked again - I'm leaning towards the Racetech Inserts as not too much money and from what various people have said here and other sites it transofrms the ride, the rears are the original Koni-dial-a rides which will need rebuilding - anyone I should be checking out for that here in the UK?

I know from getting the suspension changed on my Triumph MKII PI Estate to GAZ adjustable units and the difference to feel - security - stability it made was fantastic. I just need to apply the same approach to the Jota.

I think I'm heading towards getting the frame / engine / Ignition sorted as a priority and then refurb everything else so should I then decide to replace the carbs with a set of mikunis then for me it's more of a bolt off then bolt on (I know they'll be a bit more than that :-)  )

I'll probably head for adjustable Tarozzi Clipons that way if I want to pull the forks through the yokes it can be easily done - plus I get the benefit of being able to adjust the Racetechs without removing the handlebars.

I think I'll be keeping it the same black frame / red body work but would be interested in any actual colour codes or RAL numbers for various parts that anyone has for wheels etc.

What's the opinion of powder coat vs paint for the frame and general black items ? And any recommendations - would prefer the Essex area but would be worth travelling to drop bits off for a quality finish?

Oil filtering - I know the original is good as it's kept the engine OK for many years - But I can't help thinking that modern filters would do a better job than a bit of gauze - I saw Sir Sid has a filter on his and getting an uprated oil pump is a must so the question is: Is it worth the hassel and what is the best way to plumb it in.

Exhaust: It did use to run a Motodd 3 in to 1 back in the day - which I've still got but it's just covered in rust ! - There's a bit of my mind that thikns it would be good to get a copy made of it but I think I might need an end can as I always remeber the MOT testers giving me a hard time over it as it just had a megaphone on the back which was just a bit of wider shaped metal  ;D no baffling at all, they used to take a dim view of that to which my reply was "It was OK in the 80's when I bought it story" and they'd then begrudgingly, give it a ticket - not too sure if that would work these days. Is any one running a 3 into 1 and if so what end can are you using?

I'm looking forward to my hols but equally keen to get back and start !!  :D :D

Thanks for the info !!

Cheers,
Pete

Offline Paul LeClair

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Re: Advice required: getting the Jota back on the road
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2019, 00:40 »
Hi Pete

I am in western Canada so can't really help with local to you suppliers/services.

Bike will be easier to jet/dial in correctly with a proper air box and dual silencers and should then run really well once ignition is also sorted. Much tougher to get the bike to run really well on individual pod filters and a three into one and even at its best will likely not be as good as air box/dual silencers. Love the sound of the three into one, but you can get that same sound level with proper "Jota" dual silencers and big bore collector.

Powder coat is durable as long as very well done, but can allow water penetration and rust underneath over time. Also tough to repair/touch up. A good frame paint is durable, more original, and easy to touch up, but really personal preference. Powdercoating a frame also requires subsequent attention to making sure you grind bare grounding points as powdercoat is an effective insulator.

If you go RaceTech Emulators (and there are competitors that are similar and cheaper) still put on a fork brace.

GAZ makes nice rear shocks to fit the Laverda, if that is in your budget. Still well cheaper than a Maxton fork cartridge conversion. I doubt I would bother to rebuild an older set of Koni Dial a Rides. Grant Duguid here will do a pristine rebuild of the older cool looking Marzocchi remote reservoir shocks to concours standards, but I have no idea how well they work even after fully rebuilt, as compared to a more modern design. I have several sets of the old Marzocchi shocks in boxes somewhere and have not been tempted to have them rebuilt, but personal preference.

Oil filtering? Well, the stock setup uses the crank to sort of centrifuge all the crap out of the oil where it gets trapped in the crank pressed steel  flanges designed for the purpose. The "gauze" maybe traps big chunks, but not much else. Oil pressure is very low, not sure how well a modern filter would work. I have stuck with original oil filtration design without problems in the engines I have rebuilt.

For brakes, easy to upgrade to later Brembo four pot calipers and remote reservoir master cylinder, just need the adaptor for the fork/brake mounting. Replacement brake discs are also available, either cast iron or stainless steel. To be blunt, having done the brake upgrade on two of my three triples, the upgrade does not make all that much noticeable difference to me in street riding. The original stock Brembo calipers are easy to spllt and rebuild, add some modern brake pads like high friction EBC, and maybe stainless steel caliper pins if staying stock.

The major thing to do to the engine if it has sat for some years is to consider at least replacing all the valve springs with brand new manufacture. Wolfgang sells springs freshly made in Germany, I believe. Cheap engine insurance. Same concerning replacing the cam timing chain, just do it.

Best Regards

Paul LeClair

ps noticed you said you keep a Triumph Spitfire car running. I did a total full mechanical rebuild on a 72 Spit Mark IV, 1296 , body off frame, built the motor from bare block, built the trans from bare case, full brand new suspension, brakes, etc. etc. Modern wiring harness from http://www.advanceautowire.com/ to banish the Lucas gremlins, not an original piece of wire in the car. Highly recommended.  My 27 year old son has been using the Spit as a 3 season daily driver last couple of years without much drama. Way more dependable now than it ever was in its day.



« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 00:50 by Paul LeClair »
Paul LeClair
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
79 1200 Mirage, 82 1200 Mirage, 84 RGS Executive, and various non Laverda's

Offline Dellortoman

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Re: Advice required: getting the Jota back on the road
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2019, 04:11 »
Hi Pete, and welcome to the forum.

If you're sorting the frame, extra bracing around the steering head is pretty much essential to avoid it cracking through the front down-tubes. The factory recognised the problem back in the day and issued bracing plates to be welded on. People (including myself) have done their own versions. There's plenty of info on frame bracing if you search this forum.

As you're in UK, it would be worth having a chat to Keith Nairn at Laverda Scozia in Glasgow for any engine or frame work. He's very well clued up on all things Laverda and is from all accounts an excellent machinist and welder.

Cheers,
Cam
Location: Tasmania, Approx 42°53’S 147°23’E

Offline Ventodue

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Re: Advice required: getting the Jota back on the road
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2019, 09:41 »
<snip> I doubt I would bother to rebuild an older set of Koni Dial a Rides.

+1 to that.  Have just fitted a set of Shock Factory shockers to my Corsa in place of an ancient set of Dial-A--Rides.
"Big difference?"  "Oh, aye ...".  "Wanna go back?"  "Oh, no ...".

https://shock-factory.fr/

Based here in France, but run by an Englishman, Mike Capon.  So no language problems if you don't speak la langue de Molière.

(* Thanks to Jean-Louis for negotiating the group discount  :-*)

Offline breganzane

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Re: Advice required: getting the Jota back on the road
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2019, 12:49 »
+1 to that.  Have just fitted a set of Shock Factory shockers to my Corsa in place of an ancient set of Dial-A--Rides.
"Big difference?"  "Oh, aye ...".  "Wanna go back?"  "Oh, no ...".

https://shock-factory.fr/accueil/33-bi-amortisseur-2win.html
They look nice, another good option in the market.

You going to Breganze Craig?  Surely yes? 
Various 120, 180 and 360 Laverdas - and a single.

Offline Ventodue

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Re: Advice required: getting the Jota back on the road
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2019, 17:26 »
https://shock-factory.fr/accueil/33-bi-amortisseur-2win.html
They look nice, another good option in the market.

Yeah, they're a nice bit of kit, Steve.
 
You going to Breganze Craig?  Surely yes?

Yep (was what kinda motivated me to change the shox ... and the fork springs  :o).  See you there?