Author Topic: Lock wiring this sucker  (Read 1445 times)

Offline cbertozz

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Lock wiring this sucker
« on: March 20, 2019, 14:42 »
Haven’t got time to have to replace oil again, can I just drill this while it’s on the bike? Drill the dome near the nut bit?

Didn’t get picked up in scrutineeing last year but the moderns picked it up so infigured I’d try.



This should probably be in technical eh?
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 15:07 by cbertozz »
1978 Laverda Jota #6041
First owned in 1991, reacquired 2016.

Offline Paul Marx

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Re: Lock wiring this sucker
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2019, 15:46 »
What's with oil draining?

Take the f....g nut off, f....g drill it and f....g wire it to something handy.

Paul

Offline Schurminater

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Re: Lock wiring this sucker
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2019, 18:12 »
I would drill it across the flats on the dome cap and wire it to the Allen bolt on the casing.....you may be able to drill through one side of the head to provide an anchor point for locking.

Offline cbertozz

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Re: Lock wiring this sucker
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2019, 22:28 »
What's with oil draining?

Take the f....g nut off, f....g drill it and f....g wire it to something handy.

Paul

No oil? What is it? Can’t find it listed.
1978 Laverda Jota #6041
First owned in 1991, reacquired 2016.

Online Vince

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Re: Lock wiring this sucker
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2019, 23:08 »
Primary chain adjusting bolt, it will drop the oil inside the primary case if pulled. That's maybe 3 or 400cc. Some racers have been known to rub that domed nut while cornering.Those copper washers get removed as the chain wears and there is less thread sticking out to pack, the domed nut stops oil creep down the thread.

Offline cbertozz

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Re: Lock wiring this sucker
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2019, 23:47 »
I might try lock wiring without drilling - won’t be great but shows I tried!
1978 Laverda Jota #6041
First owned in 1991, reacquired 2016.

Offline motoddrob

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Re: Lock wiring this sucker
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2019, 00:00 »
Both the dome nut and locking nut can be unscrewed without taking the bolt out of the casing.
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Offline Dellortoman

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Re: Lock wiring this sucker
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2019, 01:05 »
Probably stating the obvious here, but with a nut you have to drill across one corner through two adjacent faces so you don't go through into the thread. It's a little difficult to get the drill started at such an angle, so you need a bit of perseverance. When I do it, I centre-punch the spot and start the drill perpendicular to the face, then as it starts to cut, gradually tilt it until it's at the correct angle. With a dome nut you also have the option of welding a little lug onto the dome and drill that.

But why lock wire it anyway?

From the rule book …
Rule 16.4.2.4
Plugs or caps which, if removed, permit
the discharge of any lubricating, cooling
or hydraulic fluids must be lockwired or
otherwise secured in the tightened position
in a manner approved by the scrutineer
.

If the dome nut is removed, it won't permit the discharge of oil. The oil is still contained by the adjuster bolt which still has a lock nut even if the dome nut falls off completely. So it's "otherwise secured in the tightened position". For it to dump oil, the lock nut would also have to vibrate loose, then the adjusting bolt back itself all the way out. Never heard of that ever happening, but someone will probably come along and say it happened to them.

Mind you, if you follow the letter of that rule, you'd have to lockwire all bleed nipples, brake and clutch fluid reservoir caps, banjo bolts, etc. Never seen that done on a race bike. Never had a scrutineer ask for it to be done.
Location: Tasmania, Approx 42°53’S 147°23’E

Online Vince

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Re: Lock wiring this sucker
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2019, 01:33 »
Maybe we need a dedicated lockwire thread, boom boom. I have heard all sorts of stuff being lockwired, cable connections to carbs and bar twist grips, tank mount bolts, brake mount bolts, wheel nuts etc etc. Maybe its a pommy bike thing for nut lose from vibs My bike has the hole in its front wheel nut for lockwire. Maybe there are official race requirements and just some that help reliability and not officially required and some just for fun and creed.BTW the only thing I ever wired were dirtbike hand grips, they always would slip when wet or muddy unless lockwired.

Offline cbertozz

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Re: Lock wiring this sucker
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2019, 03:49 »
Probably stating the obvious here, but with a nut you have to drill across one corner through two adjacent faces so you don't go through into the thread. It's a little difficult to get the drill started at such an angle, so you need a bit of perseverance. When I do it, I centre-punch the spot and start the drill perpendicular to the face, then as it starts to cut, gradually tilt it until it's at the correct angle. With a dome nut you also have the option of welding a little lug onto the dome and drill that.

But why lock wire it anyway?

From the rule book …
Rule 16.4.2.4
Plugs or caps which, if removed, permit
the discharge of any lubricating, cooling
or hydraulic fluids must be lockwired or
otherwise secured in the tightened position
in a manner approved by the scrutineer
.

If the dome nut is removed, it won't permit the discharge of oil. The oil is still contained by the adjuster bolt which still has a lock nut even if the dome nut falls off completely. So it's "otherwise secured in the tightened position". For it to dump oil, the lock nut would also have to vibrate loose, then the adjusting bolt back itself all the way out. Never heard of that ever happening, but someone will probably come along and say it happened to them.

Mind you, if you follow the letter of that rule, you'd have to lockwire all bleed nipples, brake and clutch fluid reservoir caps, banjo bolts, etc. Never seen that done on a race bike. Never had a scrutineer ask for it to be done.

Thanks Cam, that’s probably why it wasn’t requested to be lockwired originally - that’s the clarity I was after!
1978 Laverda Jota #6041
First owned in 1991, reacquired 2016.

Offline cbertozz

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Re: Lock wiring this sucker
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2019, 03:56 »
Maybe we need a dedicated lockwire thread, boom boom. I have heard all sorts of stuff being lockwired, cable connections to carbs and bar twist grips, tank mount bolts, brake mount bolts, wheel nuts etc etc. Maybe its a pommy bike thing for nut lose from vibs My bike has the hole in its front wheel nut for lockwire. Maybe there are official race requirements and just some that help reliability and not officially required and some just for fun and creed.BTW the only thing I ever wired were dirtbike hand grips, they always would slip when wet or muddy unless lockwired.

Haha. Jokes aside I might do a diagram of everything I have lockwired for future reference for anyone starting.
1978 Laverda Jota #6041
First owned in 1991, reacquired 2016.

Offline Dellortoman

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Re: Lock wiring this sucker
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2019, 06:45 »
Oops, I was quoting from my old rule book before. Didn't realise there was a 2019 update.  Not that it's changed much in respect to lockwiring, but the rule numbers have been re-shuffled.

Lockwiring is mentioned 5 times in relation to road racing in the 2019 edition.

Under general road racing:
10.17.1.6 Plugs or caps which, if removed, permit the discharge of any lubricating, cooling or hydraulic fluids, must be wire-locked or otherwise secured in the tightened position in a manner approved by the Scrutineer.
10.17.3.2 Front brake caliper mounting bolts to be lockwired in the tightened position. The use of R-clips, bowtie clips, and spring clips in conjunction with lockwiring is permitted.
10.33.3.1 A pin or locknut must be fitted to the brake pad fixture. The safety wire used on the brake caliper bolts must be visible.

Under historic road racing:
11.15.2.2 Plugs or caps which, if removed, permit the discharge of any lubricating, cooling or hydraulic fluids must be lockwired or otherwise secured in the tightened position in a manner approved by the scrutineer. All high pressure oil lines to be secured by a pressure type fitting on Period 4, Period 5 and Period 6 machines. Worm drive hose clips may be used on Period 1, Period 2 and Period 3 machines.
11.15.2.8 Front and rear brake caliper mounting bolts to be lockwired in the tightened position.

Seems odd that it's only historic bikes that have to wire the front and rear caliper bolts, whereas non-historic bikes only have to wire the front.
Location: Tasmania, Approx 42°53’S 147°23’E

Offline Dellortoman

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Re: Lock wiring this sucker
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2019, 07:05 »
On the subject of pissing oil onto the track, there appear to be a lot of bikes racing in Australia without oil catch trays under the engine. The Aussie rule book (under general road racing requirements) indicates that they are required. Am I misinterpreting the book, or are the scrutineers not enforcing this rule?

10.17.1.12 With the exception of production-based machines without a lower fairing which have Australian Design Rule compliance, all machines, including sidecars, must be fitted with an integral lower fairing dam or separate catch tray, which must be constructed to trap and hold engine oil and/or coolant:
a) For 4-stroke machines, a capacity of at least 3 litres,
b) For 2-stroke machines, a capacity of at least 2.5 litres,
c) All air-cooled machines with lower fairing dams/fluid catchment areas are to hold a capacity of fluid greater than or equal to the oil capacity of the engine unit,
d) With no less than two holes, each of 25mm, which may only be opened in wet race conditions.
Location: Tasmania, Approx 42°53’S 147°23’E

Offline Tippie

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Re: Lock wiring this sucker
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2019, 07:57 »
"Some racers have been known to rub that domed nut while cornering." Or tear the bloody thing right out.
Catch trays made compulsory here a few years ago. For wet sump bikes they must have volume for entire oil capacity of motor, in the event a rod punches out the bottom. For dry sump motors only half. Most oil around the track incidents are from loosened hoses which seem to bypass the catch tray, I have yet to see a catch tray full of oil from a blowup. On modern bikes they were primarily for coolant (only fresh water allowed anyway). Most people fasten a chopped off fairing belly pan under the exhaust, but my exhaust layout didn´t suit that solution, so had to fabricate one tight up under the crankcase above the exhaust, a bit of a job. On my primary tensioner I have tightly wired around the dome nut instead of drilling it, has passed scrutineers so far.
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Offline lavgert

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Re: Lock wiring this sucker
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2019, 11:39 »
"Some racers have been known to rub that domed nut while cornering." Or tear the bloody thing right out.

... first you scratch the domed nut, but then also the allen screw!!!
Ciao, Gert
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