Author Topic: TPS for Ignitech TCIP4  (Read 54242 times)

Offline breganzane

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Re: TPS for Ignitech TCIP4
« Reply #90 on: May 28, 2013, 00:29 »
I did a hall effect sensor hidden in the twistgrip for the ICR SLC.  Totally non-contact, so in theory it's one less thing to jam your throttle open.  There's many ways to skin a cat.
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Offline Dellortoman

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Re: TPS for Ignitech TCIP4
« Reply #91 on: May 28, 2013, 01:12 »
OK Steve. The only response to that is ... What's it for? 

Are you doing the same as Cape and running a 3-dimensional ignition timing map?
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Offline cape

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Re: TPS for Ignitech TCIP4
« Reply #92 on: May 28, 2013, 06:23 »
I did a hall effect sensor hidden in the twistgrip for the ICR SLC.  Totally non-contact, so in theory it's one less thing to jam your throttle open.  There's many ways to skin a cat.

Well that sounds like high-tech. Would you be able to attach a drawing/pictures? How is it actually built?
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Offline cape

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Re: TPS for Ignitech TCIP4
« Reply #93 on: May 28, 2013, 09:55 »
So it is Hall effect ratiometric sensor...
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Offline Dellortoman

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Re: TPS for Ignitech TCIP4
« Reply #94 on: May 28, 2013, 14:19 »
Yes, I believe so.

I'm by no means an expert on electronics. I don't reckon I'd even come up to dunce level. But I think a Hall sensor output voltage is proportional to the magnetic field strength that it is subjected to. So it's an analogue rather than a digital device.

Steve B is much better educated in electronics than I will ever be, so I look forward to his input on this.

I'm always looking for mechanical solutions, so the old points ignition with vacuum and centrifugal advance mechanisms make much more sense to me.

Cam

Location: Tasmania, Approx 42°53’S 147°23’E

Offline breganzane

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Re: TPS for Ignitech TCIP4
« Reply #95 on: May 29, 2013, 01:48 »
Hi Guys,
Yes, it's a ratiometric sensor, not that I'm any sort of electronics expert, strictly peripheral knowledge with the gaps filled in by experts I ask when required.  This was my idea of how to incorporate TPS into a strictly cable system with no rotating linkage on which to put a rotary pot.  It also does not contribute to throttle friction, lag, or any chance of jamming.  At present all I'm using the TPS for is telemetry so we can analyse what the bike is doing.
I put a rotary switch on the dash with labels " MAP A, B, C and WET" just as a shit-stir... keep the opposition guessing, if they're worrying about your bike they're not worrying about theirs... the wires didn't go anywhere.  It was subtly suggested to me by someone experienced in surviving eligibility protests that it's a far better proposition to keep your head down and don't make waves.  The classic racing scene is pretty much an old boys club, and we're not one of those old boys, so it's bad enough that we're winning, let along appearing to be smart too.
I wouldn't mind experimenting with the 3D map to take the edge off the initial pickup, but on the one hand I already have far more work on my plate than time right now, and secondly, if we are protested at the moment I can prove that my engine control is no more advanced than anyone else's.  At the Island Classic we ran the telemetry only in practice and qualifying, removing the whole system for the races, just in case.
cheers
SteveB
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Offline Laverda Bomber

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Re: TPS for Ignitech TCIP4
« Reply #96 on: May 30, 2013, 07:18 »

I put a rotary switch on the dash with labels " MAP A, B, C and WET" just as a shit-stir... keep the opposition guessing, if they're worrying about your bike they're not worrying about theirs... the wires didn't go anywhere.


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Offline hochkoenig

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Re: TPS for Ignitech TCIP4
« Reply #97 on: June 01, 2013, 18:59 »
BTW
you take 15° Advance for starting up?

Offline breganzane

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Re: TPS for Ignitech TCIP4
« Reply #98 on: June 02, 2013, 00:05 »
On petrol, more like 5-8.  Don't forget that, as discussed many times here, with the Ignitech the starting angle is entirely determined by the position of your pickups.  The 'base advance' number in software is set to match the angle it strobes at in real life, this synchronizes the advance table to the pickup position, and above the first advance point the map takes over.
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Offline cape

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Re: TPS for Ignitech TCIP4
« Reply #99 on: August 12, 2013, 20:21 »
The views on the topic are getting higher and higher, I hope someone is trying the setup...
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Offline Dellortoman

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Re: TPS for Ignitech TCIP4
« Reply #100 on: August 13, 2013, 00:13 »
It's on my list of things to do - one day when I can find a useable TPS. I think Steve B was using a neat twistgrip mounted one.

What I'd really like to have a try at is a fly-by-wire throttle using a twistgrip TPS and a servo motor on the throttle shaft.The Ignitech has an output to drive a throttle servo motor (pins 4 and 5 on the multi-pin connector). It would put an end to heavy throttle return spring problems that some of you limp-wristed girly-boys complain about.  ;)

Cam
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Offline Laverdalothar

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Re: TPS for Ignitech TCIP4
« Reply #101 on: August 13, 2013, 06:40 »
I think the servo output will not be usable for that kind of servo, but I may well be wrong. It's intended for an exup system afaik
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Offline cape

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Re: TPS for Ignitech TCIP4
« Reply #102 on: September 30, 2013, 11:04 »
We must have done something right after all! Here’s a copy of emails between me and Ignitech from 2012:

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From: Sami
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 5:47 PM
To: IGNITECH - Jan Matouš
Subject: TCIP4 and TPS

Hi,

I have build TPS system on my bike (Laverda 1000). The basic idea is to get the voltage reading from a potentiometer which responses to throttle movement. It works as intended. When I turn the throttle, voltage increases and that adjusts advance curve. All good so far. Now I'm thinking of adding a MAP sensor to same circuit. The current goes first to MAP sensor and from there to potentiometer and finally back to TCIP4. The MAP sensor reads the vacuum from inlet manifold - on idle there's high vacuum and low current - under load vacuum drops and current increases. Then the combined voltage from MAP sensor and potentiometer should adjust the advance curve.

But something is not working. The MAP sensors response time is less than 2 ms. So here's a question: How quickly does the TCIP4 respond to current changes?

There is a simple drawing attached to show the basic connections. If you have any suggestions how to make this work, I would be grateful.

Best regards,
Sami

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11.4.2012 17:04, IGNITECH - Jan Matous wrote:

Hello,

We advice you to use only TPS. We don't see any sense in your wiring.

Regards,  
Jan Matous
Ignitech s.r.o.

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From: Sami
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2012 4:57 PM
To: IGNITECH - Jan Matous
Subject: Re: TCIP4 and TPS

Ok, thank you for your answer and opinion. There is a lot of sense though. The load is a significant factor when ignition advance is adjusted. And MAP sensor reads the load. Anyway, I would still like to know the response time of the TCIP4.

Regards,
Sami

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13.4.2012 17:04, IGNITECH - Jan Matous wrote:

Hello,

Input for TPS is samplet every 10 ms. This value is used for calculation. Voltage from map sensor is various within revolution. Unit for Map sensor needs to use mean value of MAP within perion. TCIP4 version 80 doesn't do it so.

Regards,
Jan Matous
Ignitech s.r.o.

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From: Sami
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 4:44 PM
To: IGNITECH - Jan Matous
Subject: Re: TCIP4 and TPS

Hello again,

I don't know if you are even interested in what I'm doing, but I'm reporting all the same. I did some research about voltage generated by MAP sensor and found a solution. I installed a quite simple electric filter between MAP and potentiometer (picture attached). Now everything is working as intended. The filter slows down the voltage changes and TCIP4 (v7,5) is able to handle the voltage without problem. I did a test run with the setup and the engine is running well and it pulls nicely through the rev. range. The immediate gain was the drop of fuel consumption. Without the setup fuel consumption on my bike was 6,5-7 l/100 km, now it’s 5,5 l/100 km. In your future development of TCIP4 you might consider the possibility of including MAP.

All the best,
Sami

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No reply...

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From: Sami
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 10:20 AM
To: IGNITECH - Jan Matous
Subject: Re: TCIP4 and TPS

Hello,

One final time, here's some results with MAP/TPS on TCIP4.
I have been using the setup for about 2000km, so the results should be quite reliable. The average fuel consumption dropped from 7L/100km to 4,9L/100km. At the lowest it has been 4,125L/100km. And this is all due to MAP/TPS setup, the carburettors are still as they were before. The bike is running better than ever!

I'm attaching the .ign settings file to show my advance map. There is also a video clip on youtube, you might be interested in.

Best regards,
Sami

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No reply...


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That’s all I got from Ignitech regarding the subject.

On latest version of TCIP4 there is an input for “Intake Pressure Sensor”. I don’t know if our setup has anything to do with Ignitech’s addition, but the goals are very similar…  :D
« Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 20:16 by cape »
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Offline MotoV

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Re: TPS for Ignitech TCIP4
« Reply #103 on: March 24, 2014, 05:17 »
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Offline martymoose

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Re: TPS for Ignitech TCIP4
« Reply #104 on: May 09, 2020, 12:01 »
Bump to the top
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