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Laverda Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: ChrisJota79 on February 12, 2020, 07:01

Title: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: ChrisJota79 on February 12, 2020, 07:01
Heard some discussion lately about it being illegal in some states to ride with a helmet (even in good condition that is certified) that is over 10 years old.
Doing a search on various states roads sites found nothing on the matter other than to say that the rider must wear a helmet manufactured in accordance with and bearing the certification of the relative Australian/ New Zealand standard.

Anyone know for sure what the rules are?
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: Vince on February 12, 2020, 08:05
Never heard of that one, it must comply is all I know. I have heard various opinions about use-by dates for helmets from 5 years and up but legal age for replacement, nup . Bloody social media is overflowing with bullshit and spread by idiots.
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: Gerald on February 12, 2020, 08:41
How would any cop pulling you over know the age of the helmet? I've never seen a production date in a helmet. Would you have to carry the sales receipt with you, which only dates the time of purchase? In some European countries like Italy, you need to wear a certified helmet, with a ECE 22.05 sticker, but even then the lid could ancient.

Gerald
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: Tippie on February 12, 2020, 13:07
Helmets usually have production date recorded on them, often it is under the soft lining and hard to find. Discount helmets are often old stock that might have been on a shelf for years. The Shoei I use on the road has a message in it that it should be replaced after five years from first use and I can't find the manufacture date. My race Shoei has a date marking on the polystyrene liner, easy to see. For racing here they won't allow helmet more than ten years old from manufacture, if they can find a date. I doubt helmet age has any relation with road deaths, maybe coroners would check that, but it would be a bit late to fine the rider.
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: LJ-2 on February 12, 2020, 13:10
Well that"s sex out before the poor sods can start.
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: pf1 on February 12, 2020, 13:16
I think this debate started up when the first polycarbonate helmets were made, they deteriorated quickly and were affected by many things. I recall my mate pensioning one of his off and so we did our own destructive testing on it. As I remember we nearly broke before the helmet did, it took some massive punishment before it gave in.
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: Cosi on February 12, 2020, 13:35
There is no such thing as a helmet that is in good condition after 10 years, yeah the shell may be still impervious but the foam inside will be fucked, floppy helmet? I guess it all depends on how much you value your head...
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: 3C-Wayne on February 12, 2020, 15:31
Arai Manufactured on date is on the D-ring.
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: Paul Marx on February 12, 2020, 15:50
I think this debate started up when the first polycarbonate helmets were made, they deteriorated quickly and were affected by many things. I recall my mate pensioning one of his off and so we did our own destructive testing on it. As I remember we nearly broke before the helmet did, it took some massive punishment before it gave in.

The shell breaking is part of the impact absorption mechanism.
Better a smashed shell than a smashed skull.

Paul
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: Piranha Brother 2 on February 12, 2020, 22:13
The shell breaking is part of the impact absorption mechanism.
Better a smashed shell than a smashed skull.

Paul
Which is why I never did and never will ride with a polycarbonate helmet. They were cheap back in thew day and many were fooled into using them. I was forced to forego my Bell and use my boss's crap poly helmet to get through scrutineering before a race at Wanneroo (Perth, West Oz), because the Bell didn't have an Australian Standards sticker. I quickly returned to the pits and changed back to my Snell approved Bell!
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: sweetas on February 12, 2020, 22:39
You used to be able to buy the silver/red Australian standard helmet sticker on ebay, card of 10 stickers was around $2.    There were so many imported helmets that didn't have the sticker, but were sold with it Ö.. >:(

Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: wdietz186 on February 13, 2020, 04:18
The shell breaking isn't the issue with an aged out helmet, it's the foam/absorption layer inside. The liner is meant to compress and absorb the g force from the impact so your brain doesn't slam into your skull like a bug on a windscreen. The liner being foam deteriorates with exposure to the nasty crap in the  atmosphere along with cleaners and sweat/oils from the occupants head. Even the hi end helmets are cheap compared to a hospital visit for a head scan and/or rehab from having your bell rung.   
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: Dellortoman on February 13, 2020, 05:35
Even the hi end helmets are cheap compared to a hospital visit for a head scan and/or rehab from having your bell rung.   

Not to mention the helicopter ride to get to the hospital, eh Chris?
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: Woody on February 14, 2020, 23:04
I'm glad that I renew my helmet every 4 years, I would hate to think what the damage would have been had I been wearing an older helmet. Maybe a trip to the undertakers in a pine box or half my face missing, cheaper than the helicopter ride though.
$14,000.00 for the helicopter, $400 for a decent lid on special.
Looking at the damage to my helmet you've got to go with a full face helmet to protect the lower face.
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: Piranha Brother 2 on February 14, 2020, 23:22

Looking at the damage to my helmet you've got to go with a full face helmet to protect the lower face.

Haven't worn an open face since my first moto back in 1972, Chris. Too true!
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: Legs on February 15, 2020, 02:27
Would never ride in an 'open face' again. Seen too many carted off in an ambulance for facial reconstructions.
I know, it's personal choice etc.etc., but it's my choice. Plus, at 60 kph rain tickles, at 80 it stings and at 100 it downright hurts and I refuse to wear one of those 'skull' masks so beloved by our Harley riding brothers.
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: Richard 180.S2 on February 15, 2020, 02:37
I was catapulted off my bike many years ago into the path of a car coming the other way. A full face helmet saved my life, an open face would have meant my certain demise... I don't know why folks even consider an open face. I have a top dollar Arai helmet of which every cent paid is great value for money. Don't save money in the helmet department!
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: Dellortoman on February 15, 2020, 03:57
I'm old enough to remember the days when full face helmets hadn't been invented. In my early days of motorcycling I wore an open face 'jet' style helmet with goggles. On wet days a scarf or bandana around the face offered some protection against the sting of rain. I crashed a few times with the old open face helmet (even had a head-on with a car in which I was catapulted over the top of the car and landed several metres the other side of it) but fortunately I never did a face-plant into anything - more by good luck than any ninja-style landing technique.

Then in 1968, the Bell Star full face helmet appeared on the scene. Shortly after that, everyone was making similar helmets. I bought a Shoei copy of the Bell Star in about 1970.

My old Stadium goggles are now displayed on my mantlepiece like a museum exhibit, but I no longer have my original helmet because some arsehole stole it.
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: Vince on February 15, 2020, 05:06
I had a 1/2 face and a full face at the same time years ago, don't remember why I had the half-face but I hated using it. Recently I bought a new Shoei Modular for eye-watering money, the odd thing is I like to wear it around to the local petrol station with the front up and open. It's by far the most comfortable helmet I have used. Having the front up takes me back to riding to the shower block at race sites not wearing a helmet or cruising around a campsite doing the same. I would never not wear a full face to a proper ride but still really enjoy going helmetless in the rare times I can.
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: laverdas on February 15, 2020, 08:12
Half face davida and a beard 🧔 for the last 46 years. Sooner have good vision than worry about a drop 💧 of rain ☔.
 Nothing like the wind on your cheeks and the knats in your teeth
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: AndyW on February 15, 2020, 10:00
Have never had an issue/worry about using open face helmets: they encourage you to focus a little harder on what you're doing. Also happy to risk a little gravel rash on the chin rather than a broken neck...
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: CLEMTOG on February 15, 2020, 15:07
I had a very nasty crash in 1973 that I have spoken about many times, the worlds first total loss 750SF1, it was six weeks old with 3500 miles clocked!  I was unconscious for six days and in hospital for six months and had many operations, on the day they took out my spleen, one kidney, a yard of intestine (temporary colostomy), my appendix plus multiple stitched wounds, three weeks later they told my father that my right arm had to come off, he replied that not before a second opinion had been obtained, he never obtained that, and I still have my (albeit gammy) right arm. the kidneys problems never went away and I had a transplant of two extra ones four years ago.

The main point is that I didn't have any (visible) head/face  injuries, the unconsciousness was inevitable and something of a deliberate ploy by medical staff as well, but when I saw my six week old full face helmet it made me feel sick, it was scarred and grazed all over, very heavily but the amazing thing is the visor was intact and holding not only all its fixing points but pivot points as well, the damage to the visor (only the visor) could be described thus, place helmet on a nine inch tree stump approx. two feet out of the ground, and then swing a felling axe with all your might, diagonally across it and collide, the visor held! but was heavily indented, it must have contacted my cheek and nose, we now think that was a track control rod under the front of the 26 tonne truck that had stalled in a country lane on an uphill (for it) section, I saw it, braked heavily and went down, 100% my fault, but as an aside trucks over seven feet wide are not permitted down that lane.

Full face for me and must be top of the shop, that one was an Everoak, second string at the time, I have since then worn Shoei Z100 (1986/7) then four AGV's and currently another Shoei.

CLEM
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: Vince on February 15, 2020, 16:47
The last thing the Helicopter Doctor did after loading Chris up in Tasmania was have a good hard look at the damage to his helmet. It looked in places like a 9-inch angle grinder had been at it. It did its job very well, it took one hell of a knock and he survived with apparently no long term injuries. Although he keeps telling me to fuck off and that worries me though. My little jokes as I was asking him the usual concussion questions after he returned to consciousness and that was his standard reply.
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: SimonR501 on February 15, 2020, 17:54
One more vote for full-face every time! Never, ever open face!

I did a swan dive and headbutted the road big time with a full face helmet on (diesel patch).
I remember  the hard whack on the head, then I watched the road whizz by through the visor.
 
Helmet a write off,  face still as pretty as ever!!!!!
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: padlock on February 15, 2020, 19:40
I had the pleasure of face planting when i 16 years old, the chin bar and visor wer almost destroyed. If I hadnít been wearing a full face i wouldnít have a face.

FFFANARCHY
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: Tippie on February 15, 2020, 19:49
I get the opinion that it is not just me that gets PTS seeing people wearing open face helmets. Mine comes from riding beside a mate who face planted, dived, into the road at about 100kmh. It is a bit like people refusing to wear seatbelts to me.
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: Legs on February 15, 2020, 21:41
Attend many motorcycle accidents here in the Adelaide Hills; the paramedics always take the helmet (along with the casualty) with them when they leave the accident scene.
It seems that most, not all, who prefer an open face are choosing fashion over function.
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: Piranha Brother 2 on February 16, 2020, 00:45

It seems that most, not all, who prefer an open face are choosing fashion over function.

You've got it. And it's not just open face helmets and bandanas. Every time I see someone riding (often a sports bike) on a hot day wearing shorts, a singlet (often also the pillion on a hog, female, dressed for the beach), a pair of Nikes at best - I just say 'obviously you've never felt the effect of skin on bitumen matey'. But it can never happen to them ... 'cos I'm really careful'.

I do a lot of cycling and on descents can be going very fast, and anywhere up to 60kph on the flat. Unfortunately it's one risk I have to live with - until they design protective clothing that's light and breathes sufficiently to allow your body to cool when you're working at close to full physical effort. Just recovering from a spill in deep gravel at about 10kph ... deep grazes and three weeks of scabs in about 4 locations on the bod.
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: 78jotadave on February 16, 2020, 02:34
You've got it. And it's not just open face helmets and bandanas. Every time I see someone riding (often a sports bike) on a hot day wearing shorts, a singlet (often also the pillion on a hog, female, dressed for the beach), a pair of Nikes at best - I just say 'obviously you've never felt the effect of skin on bitumen matey'. But it can never happen to them ... 'cos I'm really careful'.

Q, I am always blown away when I cross over into Arizona and see motorcycle riders of all types riding without a helmet(not required) although eye protection is, WTF. Maybe it is so your eyes can be harvested after your brains spill out.

No open face helmets (on the track) at American Historic Racing Motorcycle events, what does that tell you?
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: sfcpiet on February 16, 2020, 09:43
Here we are, preaching the use of full-face helmets, safety concerns, etc.  On the other hand, "nanny" states are scorned upon when they start infringing our "freedom"... I remeber the outcry when lids became mandatory in Oz, as well as seatbelts.  A lot earlier than most of Europe, btw.  Helmets became mandatory around 1978 in Germany, seatbelts 1983, both of which were mandatory in the state of Victoria when I left in 1973!  Now, we can't imagine NOT using these safety devices.  Hypocrisy??

As long as we have a choice, to each his/her own, imho.  Each individual should be aware of risks and should take full responsibility for his/her actions.   I do not approve of irresponsible individuals blaming others, or society, when they fall on their face.

I'm quite comfortable riding with a jet style helmet on my slower bikes, keeps me alert and defensive.  Full-face helmet on the quicker bikes is more for protection against the elements than anything else.  The additional facial protection is but a by-product, the same defensive attitude has kept me out of trouble for decades.  I don't think I've had less fun than others during this time, either!

I'm well aware that some moronic zombie in his cage can T-bone me at the next intersection, but that's a risk I take every time I step out my front door, actually.  Although a full-face lid may save some of our prettier parts, it won't make us immortal.  THAT is an attitude that often arises once all available protection gear is adorned, much the same as climbing into a mother-fucker sized SUV with all the bells and whistles.  Sure, the chances of surviving a major prang are greater, but still a long way from 100%.

Less aggresiveness, along with a generous helping of common-sense, is what keeps you alive, and prettier, for longer.

piet
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: Legs on February 16, 2020, 13:47
As you said Piet, to each their own. ;)
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: AndyW on February 16, 2020, 20:02
Motorcycling is dangerous: mb we should all just stay home and hide under our beds... ::) ::)
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: Legs on February 16, 2020, 21:16
Yes, motorcycling is dangerous as are a lot of outside sporting activities and each one strives to make it safer. Skiing is a case in point; when I took it up skiing in the early sixties only downhill racers wore helmets, then little kids took them up and now just about every skier wears one.
Don't think many people complain about doing up their seat belt these days ;).
Around here even Harley riders are starting to wear full-face lids :laugh:.
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: Vince on February 17, 2020, 00:42
Horror case in point, Michael Schumacher. Skiing with his kids probably not too hard and even wearing a helmet.
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: AndyW on February 17, 2020, 05:48
Horror case in point, Michael Schumacher. Skiing with his kids probably not too hard and even wearing a helmet.
On which was attached a Go Pro now part of his skull
Title: Re: is it illegal to ride with a helmet that is over 10 year old
Post by: chrisk on February 17, 2020, 09:09
On which was attached a Go Pro now part of his skull

Iíll toast to that; Schull.